Geller Cast Model, how to...

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

This is all I could find,
http://www.edmclaren.com/Pubs/PDFs/LabTalk_V3N7_7th_LN FINAL.pdf

But I would like to attempt to build a Geller model at some point.

I'm sure I wont have a problem, however, any tips/tricks would be helpful as I haven't experienced the trial and error involved in building a Geller cast yet.

Thanks.

 

[2thm8kr]

Get a really long milling bur to taper your dies. Even the slightest undercut will ruin your day.

 

[Tayebdental]

It is a long and time consuming procedure, but if your paid enough, why not.

 

[2thm8kr]

Marcus,
Get this book:http://www.quintpub.com/display_detail.php3?psku=b4225
There is a whole chapter on this technique.

 

[JohnWilson]

They are not easy, and really not practical for the majority of work we do in the lab. I would much rather have single dies and a solid model than deal with this headache.

Good luck, post some pictures of you screaming when you lock in a die and have to start all over

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

They are not easy, and really not practical for the majority of work we do in the lab. I would much rather have single dies and a solid model than deal with this headache.

Good luck, post some pictures of you screaming when you lock in a die and have to start all over

We don't have any reason to build one, I just never have before so I would like to.

 

[2thm8kr]

We don't have any reason to build one, I just never have before so I would like to.

You may change your mind after you do.

 

[martintay]

Put short Crosspins pins + sleeves under the preps ie treat initially as a pindex model , then cut dies and taper - apply a small amount of wax around taper (The pins will hold die in the correct place after "Gellering" ).After "Gellering" warm the wax around the dies and pop them out - steam-clean and you have a beautiful soft tissue representation "Geller " Model. Easily done!!

 

[JohnWilson]

Put short Crosspins pins + sleeves under the preps ie treat initially as a pindex model , then cut dies and taper - apply a small amount of wax around taper (The pins will hold die in the correct place after "Gellering" ).After "Gellering" warm the wax around the dies and pop them out - steam-clean and you have a beautiful soft tissue representation "Geller " Model. Easily done!!

Easier said that done

 

[martintay]

Not hard John - I`ve done full arch like this. The wax spacer around the dies is the secret to success IMO

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

Not hard John - I`ve done full arch like this. The wax spacer around the dies is the secret to success IMO

Well I would want a very thin and even wax, so I would just heat the pot up all the way, or torch a pan of wax till its quite hot... What about a thin layer of that pink rubber sep?

 

[actittle]

Another approach is to make a putty matrix of the model, trim the soft tissue away, inject Zhermack Gingifast Rigid into the matrix, seat it on the model.

Now you have removable soft tissue. Much easier IMO

 

[Tayebdental]

Another approach is to make a putty matrix of the model, trim the soft tissue away, inject Zhermack Gingifast Rigid into the matrix, seat it on the model.

Now you have removable soft tissue. Much easier IMO

Is that just labial? Or includes lingual??.

 

[martintay]

Agree with acctitle as another option , but its not a Geller.Marcus I would space with wax as it blocks any undercut. Box imp with wax also before Gellering (Use die stone also - a different colour is nice ) John get your model guys to give it a go on a simple 1 or 2 unit simple case . They will probably enjoy it and hopefully you and your client will like the result

 

[actittle]

We have done it both ways.

Sometimes we have it slip off like a boot around the dies. Sometimes we split it in the interproximal area so we can peel it off lingual/labial.

 

[JohnWilson]

I have made them Martin, of course anything that you put your attention to detail to is achievable. I am just saying we have done them where we think its perfect and one die will lock in and then its a total do over. When we made them we would taper the dies and then use supersep, so there was no slop to the dies to the wall of the model. When we sealed with wax we would sometimes get lateral play After a few under MY belt I got them down but my plaster guy hates them and thus I hate them.

 

[martintay]

Ok guys, so the margins are usually to "Tight " anyway ! Agreed ? What I do everyday with my statics is - put the coping on the model and carefully follow the coping ( but go 1mm deeper) with a very small flame tungsten or diamond depending on coping material in a high speed handpiece. This way I get a virtual "Geller" in solid accurate form - also with enough room to add ceramic at the margin as the gingivae is already relieved a touch ! This takes me approx. 15 seconds per coping.

 

[aqdental]

Hi Marcus
QDT 2009 "the alveolar model" M.Magne, P. Bazos, P. Magne.

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

Ok guys, so the margins are usually to "Tight " anyway ! Agreed ? What I do everyday with my statics is - put the coping on the model and carefully follow the coping ( but go 1mm deeper) with a very small flame tungsten or diamond depending on coping material in a high speed handpiece. This way I get a virtual "Geller" in solid accurate form - also with enough room to add ceramic at the margin as the gingivae is already relieved a touch ! This takes me approx. 15 seconds per coping.

When I build my soft tissue models, I block everything out with utility wax. I fill the prepped dies in the impression with wax up to the margin. They eject the elastic soft tissue, then remove wax and pour stone. I get some nice soft tissue models that techs comment on and ask how I did it. But even though you cannot remove the tissue, I still have techs remove it anyway and they cant get it back on. And no matter how many times I tell em, don't remove the tissue, I provided you with another solid model without tissue to hack up. They still mess up my tissue models.

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

Hi Marcus
QDT 2009 "the alveolar model" M.Magne, P. Bazos, P. Magne.

12:47 A.M? Go to bed, you got lots of work to do in the morning.