China

[Dental1]

Are the Chinese doing implant cases?

 

[araucaria]

They're doing it all - you can find their labs online easily - google.
The big question is 'are the local surgeons sending all of the work to china?'
big question no.2 is 'are the surgeons aware when their lab is sending work to china?'
When there's such a big price differential you would wonder why it is that the patients do not get ANY of their work for a better price. There's no market pressure, just a greed element creeping into the service of modern dentistry.
I've seen some work from china and I must say it's fine on the whole. Usual variations, but when there's a problem you know how important it is to have a local service. But will there always be a local service in every community if the skilled craftsmen and women are put out of work.?

 

[amadent]

araucaria-
its like you read my mind or have some type of recording device in my lab
i could not agree with you more, with the fees patients are quoted for work especially implants ($3k for the surgeon and $3k restorative per implant), the only reason the send it to China is like you said- PURE GREED

 

[rkm rdt]

It was on this very site that we learned that not all of these outsource labs are based in China.
Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia are all much cheaper with regards to labour.

I put forth the theory that some Chinese labs are probably "outsourcing " to these cheaper countries as we speak.

 

[araucaria]

How many times have we bought toys or simple cheap gifts for our kids and not thought about their origin? Toys from china, clothing from india, africa,philipines etc...Everyday electrical items............
ToysRus or McD's don't charge 3K extra per toy though, the differential is passed down the line but still leaving a suitable margin of profit.
Real world capitalism won't change things, but attitudes might change through education/information. The protection of a skilled service sector is an important and necessary task, and the free-market will continue to put pressure on this effort always. I feel it's going to be the lower side of the supply sector that will be affected most by the competitive aspects, while the top-end sector will always be needed for its support value.

 

[jerry]

i am from china. i am a dental technician in china,,, yes china do all crowns,

 

[Mark Jackson]

Yes, implant parts and components are widely available in China (and all of Asia)

The use of non-FDA registered and counterfeit products from China is a tremendous risk, particularly with implants. These are FDA Type II devices and are highly regulated. All appropriate FDA guidelines for manufacturing of screws and restorative components must be observed, including supplying country of origen, FDA registration information and manufacturer contact information along with lot numbers must be provided.

Poor quality of Chinese titanium components have been noted by the FDA and warnings and recalls have been issued (See FDA.Gov or DentalTown for more information).

 

[rkm rdt]

If only the patient could see the invoice?

 

[rkm rdt]

If you want to stop this in its tracks then put together a Public Awareness campaign.

" Show me the invoice" Show me the quality!

 

[Mark Jackson]

If you want to stop this in its tracks then put together a Public Awareness campaign.

" Show me the invoice" Show me the quality!

I'll bet the average selling price in Canada is no different than in the US.

 

[TheLabGuy]

I'll bet the average selling price in Canada is no different than in the US.

From the labs invoice or the Doctors invoice?.....because someone on this thread the average in China is about 30 dollars per unit.

 

[Mark Jackson]

From the labs invoice or the Doctors invoice?.....because someone on this thread the average in China is about 30 dollars per unit.

What I am saying is, that having the lab fee seperated from the doctors labor, so that they can see what the lab fee is, has not INCREASED the amount Canadian labs are charging to dentists. If anything, I believe it will compel patients to look for lower priced crowns when they compare invoices with their co-workers crown, which looks exactly the same TO THEM, but cost half as much.

Most patients want their crowns to:

1) Not hurt
2) Be available in a single appointment if possible
3) Look like a tooth
4) Chew like a tooth
5) As inexpensive as possible
6) Last the rest of their life.

I think disclosing country of origen, and giving them a material disclosure form will allow them to better compare apples to apples, and is much more important than having them know what the dentist paid for it.

As a patient, I would much rather know that my implant crown was made in the USA and made of gold or tiatnium, when I compare mine to my neighbors which was made in China from Nickle and chrome, regardless of the dentists fee.

 

[rkm rdt]

It's far less stressful to let the patient decide what they want to put in their mouth.If the patient does not want to spend alot of money then the Dentist can give that patient the option of a lower priced crown if they prefer.

If they are not concerned about where it's made and only concerned about price then they may choose a crown made in China.( if you got to WalMart you know what I mean).

If the patient Is concerned about where the crown is made and still wants a lower price they can have Mark Jackson, RDT make it (@ $59* ).

If they want a US crown made by one of the best ceramists in Kentucky and money is no object then they can request Al.@ $300...you deserve a raise big guy.

Most Drs deal with more than one lab as it is so there really is no "shopping around" as it were but, as they say,"the customer is always right".That is the American way is it not?

You may think the patient is not educated enough and doesn't need to make an informed decision about what they put in their mouth.That's fine .

But I don't share that belief.

by the way,

I wear a touque, not a beret!

So take off you hoser!

 

[paulg100]

If you want to stop this in its tracks then put together a Public Awareness campaign.

" Show me the invoice" Show me the quality!

To a certain degree, this is now law in the UK.

The DR is legally required to offer the patient a statement of manufacture showing where the crown was made, but guess what........ most of them are ignoring this obligation

Whats even better is that we are now part of the same GDC professional register and pay an annual retention fee and our interest are meant to be protected by the GDC the same as the dentists, but they are doing very little to enforce this requirement.

 

[rkm rdt]

If you are paying fees to the GDC then they have an obligation to address this issue to its members.
Are the lab fees included on the invoice?

Is it mandatory for a UK lab to owned or operated by an RDT?

Is the RDT license mandatory?

 

[jerry]

Yes, implant parts and components are widely available in China (and all of Asia)

The use of non-FDA registered and counterfeit products from China is a tremendous risk, particularly with implants. These are FDA Type II devices and are highly regulated. All appropriate FDA guidelines for manufacturing of screws and restorative components must be observed, including supplying country of origen, FDA registration information and manufacturer contact information along with lot numbers must be provided.

Poor quality of Chinese titanium components have been noted by the FDA and warnings and recalls have been issued (See FDA.Gov or DentalTown for more information).

actully most chinese lab registered FDA, if they dont passed it , you know . WHEN the teeth shipping to US, the customs will say NO, to the products.. in fact , just registered FDA, is not very hard work .. so who want the products block in the CUSTOMS... GET THE PEOPELE TRUST IS MORE HARD... AND MADE THE VERY HIGH QUALITY TEETH IS VERY HARD.. A LOT OF LAB THE QUALITY IS POOR.;
popcorn

 

[Mark Jackson]

actully most chinese lab registered FDA, if they dont passed it , you know . WHEN the teeth shipping to US, the customs will say NO, to the products.. in fact , just registered FDA, is not very hard work .. so who want the products block in the CUSTOMS... GET THE PEOPELE TRUST IS MORE HARD... AND MADE THE VERY HIGH QUALITY TEETH IS VERY HARD.. A LOT OF LAB THE QUALITY IS POOR.;
popcorn

Registering with the FDA is as easy as logging onto the website. Meeting FDA requirements for manufacture is the harder part. I think that may be what you are trying say above?

Jerry, I appauld you for aspiring to the highest level. Is your desire to open a lab for Chinese dentists, or to get work from other countries?

 

[jerry]

Registering with the FDA is as easy as logging onto the website. Meeting FDA requirements for manufacture is the harder part. I think that may be what you are trying say above?

Jerry, I appauld you for aspiring to the highest level. Is your desire to open a lab for Chinese dentists, or to get work from other countries?

actually i only want work with the foreign dentists or labs, china market is not as good as think. have a lot of lab make chinese mainland market ,but foreign market is bigger than china, important it more make moneypopcorn .. but it will harder to find the new partner or dentists. you konw the international shipping is expensive.

Merry Christmas sir

 

[Mark Jackson]

actually i only want work with the foreign dentists or labs, china market is not as good as think. have a lot of lab make chinese mainland market ,but foreign market is bigger than china, important it more make moneypopcorn .. but it will harder to find the new partner or dentists. you konw the international shipping is expensive.

Merry Christmas sir

Yes, we have many Chinese labs here too. Stick to Europe or Canada. I hear they have lots of room for competition.

 

[araucaria]

Yes, we have many Chinese labs here too. Stick to Europe or Canada. I hear they have lots of room for competition.